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SuperPlay! | Specific Game Discussion | Ikaruga | Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
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Zugzwang

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Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« on: November 23, 2005, 07:01:49 pm »

Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy

As you may or may not know, I have been putting a lot effort into advancements in chapter 2 strategies. My only shortcoming at the moment is the time available to execute them. So I am putting this challenge forward: Prove or disprove any of my findings.
I’m hoping we can achieve this more quickly than I can alone.

Pardon my methods. My job sucks and I’ve had way to much time to think about this. I’ve separated each strategy as posts for clarity and to move independently as we find they work. I’ll also note each section has a percentage of success beside them. These are the ones I know work and what the probability (I believe) they are of working.  I hope I don’t bore you all  in the details.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2005, 07:48:51 pm by Zugzwang »
Zugzwang

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Re: Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2005, 07:03:31 pm »

1 probability % 100
Chain borrowing one extra white enemy from 2-1 to 2-2 box section

For references download: CVM’s Chapter2 Normal video
                                      This is the Trash Box video link. It is under C2 2004/08/08 (16.2MB)
                                      Zugzwangs Chapter2_205 video

First off the trashbox  method is very tricky. Bullet eating is optimal but there are still holes to cover to achieve the 205. The super fast entry release in CVMs video (to get the extra enemy at the end of 2-1) is inconsistent. The second two bar release after the full release proves to be most difficult and not moving from the laser is an issue.

The super fast release at the beginning is soon enough from the start to try again if you miss. I would not attempt this strat anyway in a full run because of its risk factor.
The second problem is obtaining two bars for a release after the full one. As CVM told me “Its just lucky that the second bar doesn’t break the strat” meaning if you happen to get two bars you kill two white, if not you shoot both in front of you. That is true, however there are at least two people (Xer and Trash man) who don’t do the super fast entry and must have found some consistency in order to use it. I should ask them for their advice. Personally, I have been stubborn looking for a method of my own.
Another option I have been exploring is using a full black release and bullet eating the three next black. This however gives me problems with the left laser.

Now after you have obtained the extra white enemy you need to complete the chain.  Here is the question: is leaving four enemies or one until the end best? Obviously bullet eating is the man concern can the rest of 2-1 be completed without the loss of 15k
« Last Edit: June 15, 2007, 01:06:13 am by Zugzwang »
Zugzwang

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Re: Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2005, 07:04:51 pm »

1a     ( 4 whites remaining )
Sit in right laser and do an 8 bar release for the white.
Then a 6 bar for the black. Sometimes I clip 1 center white while trying to get the 6 black on the left and other times it works. It is also difficult to time the six bars as you have a bunch white bullets flying at you. You don’t have to worry about destroying the left laser though.
Zugzwang

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Re: Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2005, 07:05:40 pm »

1b     ( 1 white remaining )
Destroy the left laser with either 2 white bars or 1 black bar. Sit in right laser.
A 9 bar release kills all but 1 center white.
You must single shot this white before the blacks start appearing in the center.
Wait until 6 black center ships are lower than the laser and do a full release.
Rest of strat as normal.
Both methods optimize bullet eating as much as I can find. Score and consistency are the concern.
I have yet to find anything conclusive because my second release still needs work.
Zugzwang

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Re: Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2005, 07:06:24 pm »


In order to address the bullet eating in 2-2 I have improved upon my strat from the video
The black and white rings I potentially lose 1k from two white, more like 6-800
Xer was right I lose exactly 5k in bullets during the rings. I now bullet eat the final white ring
The boxes section after getting the four white on the left, I get the next black as white, Bullet eat 3 of the next black boxes and do my release hitting the last black box. This leaves 2 white instead of 1. I Kill the left as white and it puts you in the right place for the next black release.
All said and done I eat 11-12 boxes which is within approx. 1-4k from optimal 81 chain strats
The Gain is 25520. I am now certain this much doesn’t have to be lost over 2-1 and 2-2. I think its just a awful lot of work (and high risk factor) for one extra chain Wink

A couple final notes. Although time consuming it may ultimately be best to find a new full bar release for 2-1 to utilize the extra white enemy. I also believe there is one more pattern in the boxes that yields 2 extra white. That will make this strat twice as legitimate.
Zugzwang

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Re: Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2005, 07:07:22 pm »

2 Section 2 covers the 1st gens and all variations of.

2a probability % 70
The 1st gens two extra white
 
As a reference download: emil's 1st generator clip

In the video emil immediately does a two bar realese after the 3 bar on the white generator however the is not enough time to kill all the right enemies AND the left enemies before the disappear. This deserves attention because it is just so close. I believe the key may be what I had discussed earlier with CVM.
Previous to killing the gen enemies you can give the white generator 3 black single shots. This will mean you can stay as white to kill the generator with 2 bars and you’ll receive the white bullets to help with the blacks on the opposite side.
(This is also an alternative to getting 2 black for strat 2b. Gaining the extra white chain with no intention of getting the last black on the left)
« Last Edit: June 15, 2007, 01:11:00 am by Zugzwang »
Zugzwang

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Re: Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2005, 07:08:27 pm »

2b probability %100
The 1st gens two extra black (Chain borrowing two black from the 1st to the 2nd gens)

This is very hard to do and explain.  It involves an odd amount of modification from the normal strategy, but is 100% possible. I have yet to determine the difference in bullet eating although it is of surprisingly little sacrifice.
  • First it involves a 5 bar release on the last of the white gen enemies 3 white and then 2 black from the right will be hit.
  • Finish the black chain with a single shot up the center. 
  • Grab the 2 white on the right as normal 1 from the center on the way left.
  • 3 black on the Left
  •   2 white in the center (leave the 2 black) then you should be as close as you can to the laser shooting and absorbing. 
  • As it reaches the center you must be high enough so that your release kills the laser first and then it swoops down catching the 2 last blacks



  • No time to relax. Release all the bars you absorbed before the 12 new enemies appear 
  • Bullet eat the black bullets as normal as you back down. Release when you obtain 1 bar. You need to be just right of center to clip 1 black on the right.
  • Left as normal get 6 whites
  • Right as normal 5 blacks
  • As you switch to white to go through the white wave destroy the right laser as white. If all is done quickly you should still make it under the left laser before it fires 
  • 12 whites as normal
  • And next 13 black enemies as normal
  • After you kill the 12 black and absorb from the laser you need to wait as long as possible to destroy it. (reading this, there may be a better way for this and the next step)
  • This gives you just enough time to kill 1 black on the left Bullet eat all as white on right and come back to the left for the black. (you must be quick)
  • LEAVE 2 OF THE WALL as you go up killing next 6 black (in after thought, this is the way I’ve done it, but it might prove better to bullet eat the wall and leave 2 enemies)
  • Your white release should again be high enough to hit the white wall first but will swoop back down for the black you left 
  • 1 black from the wall  (often times if your not fast enough with the previous step, this 1 black  will be hit with your release. It doesn’t often break your chain though.)
  • 6 white on right
  • 2 remaining wall and only 4 black enemies on the left
  • Your white release will take out the 3 white wall and then go back down for the 2 black left. (I like saving this release as long as possible otherwise making it back over to the right is more harrowing. Not so long that the whites on the right appear )
  • You also have to stick around to nab the bottom rightmost off the black wall. This will put you behind some.
  • Quickly as you can go left bullet eat enemies plus the wall. I leave 2 of the white wall to be caught by the beginning of the next black release ( because of time ) 
  • This final release gets the last 5 black wall
Now after all this I’m sure your wondering what the hell I’m going to do. I need 1 extra black
Now if you watch CVM’s video closely, the only enemy missed at the beginning of the 2nd gens is ONE SOLITARY WHITE
You mirror the entire 2nd  gens! Start by hitting that ONE BLACK at the beginning.

  • The 1 black will appear just left of center as the screen scrolls down. You will need to be there so bullet eating the last of the wall will be minimized 
  • Then head right to get that first white as black
  • Then 2 white as you start shifting to the left you need to be switching to white here. 
  • 3 whites and catch the 3 blacks on the left before they hit the white generator
That is how you chain borrow from the 1st to the 2nd generators. I will shortly be looking for capture equipment in order to properly do it justice. It is quite fantastic to achieve.

Like I said I have not worked out how much you may lose bullet eating but with a quick count about 10 enemies are not done properly and if  they were 1000 apiece ( not likely ) it would only be 10k from the extra 25030. The downside to doing this strat is that if a chain is found just at the 1st gens it immediately becomes obsolete. On the other hand it may be combined with a second strat for 2 chains.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 01:05:12 pm by Zugzwang »
Zugzwang

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Re: Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2005, 07:09:03 pm »


2a-b % 10
Both two extra white and black
This would require as it suggests both off the 2 previous strategies combined.
A single shot up the center completing the black chain as you go down to get the two extra white. Then all other enemies on right and left borrowing two black to the second gens.
Theoretically possible, but timing should prove too tight.
Zugzwang

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Re: Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2005, 07:09:47 pm »

2c % 70
Phasing the generators
This is mostly theoretical. It began with trying to make better use of the enemies at the first gens.
Looking for ways, I started leaving white enemies out thinking it would offset the end making my final release hit black. I had already found the I could catch 2 black on the left on the final white release, If I could end with black I would get two white. This may complete one extra chain at the first gens. Obviously, I found leaving whites behind wasn’t correct.
Regardless of what you do there are always the same number of enemies dispensed from both generators. So this lead me to try variations with the ring in the center. In order to phase to the other side you need to make three chains in the same time you’d do two with single shots up the center.
In other words



Now you end on the black side because you’ve just done 3 chains with only 6 generator enemies. What’s even more interesting is that you can start with either color. The problem is you have only a very short window to do this from the time the ring appears. Provided the first 9 chains from the generators are the same it leaves these variations:
« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 01:07:21 pm by Zugzwang »
Zugzwang

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Re: Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2005, 07:10:30 pm »

 
2cA % 40
White first


                       
From this first variation you can see how important the leftover enemies are. You’ve got 5 black and 5 white, not very advantageous. In the Normal you have 6 chains from the gens plus 4 from up top = 10chains. In diagram W1 you have 7 plus 1 black and 1 white = 9 chains. You really have to get one more in black in the last release to even out then you still have wasted two extra white. It still may be of use to us.

« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 02:23:20 pm by Zugzwang »
Zugzwang

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Re: Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2005, 07:11:10 pm »

2cB % 40
Black first


 
What’s most interesting about B1 is we have reversed Normal completely. Leaving the one black on the left and completing 3 chains up top = 10 chains. It still may have merit though, because it’s the opposite, with only one more black both B1 and B2 can be chain borrowed. B2 is the most interesting.  Timing wise would be easiest with the 21st black chain on the way to the left. The only problem is getting under one more enemy. The line on Normal diagram shows how many enemies you defeat before the final, release normally. It is 15 in normal, 16 in diagram B2. If you CAN get under this one more enemy it provides the next two modified variations.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 02:26:53 pm by Zugzwang »
Zugzwang

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Re: Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2005, 07:11:50 pm »

2cC % 70



These last 2 variations are really the most promising way of achieving 1 extra chain at the 1st  gens. As you can see you can start with either color. But the timing is also drastically easier. Instead of three single shots two will suffice. I adjusted their numbers to show you probably the best way. The numbers are not the order they fall but when the shots are fired. Both accomplish 7 chains were 6 used to be plus 4 on top = 11 chains. Again this is all theory but it looks very close. Its nice to get it down on to paper rather than it swimming around in my head!

( I believe I can debunk this myself, after investigation it is possible to get under the 16th enemy but the next release often does not hit all the black grrrrrrrr. After all my hard work I couldn't part with this section. Embarassed It may be of use to someone anyway. 11/23/05 )

« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 02:28:31 pm by Zugzwang »
Zugzwang

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Re: Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2005, 07:12:26 pm »

3 Section 3 covers the 2nd gens and all variations of.
I need to preface section 3 by defining the variables at work in normal mode.

The TWO variables are how quickly you defeat the rings, and how fast you defeat the lasers. Now you may be wondering why I don’t mention leaving less or more behind at the generators. The reason is, after much thought I realized that you can only defeat the rings so quickly.
( the shortest is length of time it takes 12 of both colors to appear.)
( the longest is the moment you can see the entire ring )
The other variable translates into how many bars of release you have coming into the lasers.
Although most of the variations involve manipulating enemies these two variables remain the key to more bonus rows. It is possible to get 7-8-9-10 and yes 11 bonus rows in normal mode.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2005, 08:19:29 pm by Zugzwang »
Zugzwang

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Re: Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2005, 07:13:06 pm »

3a % 75 %100                                                                                                                     11/28/05
Leaving chains behind for bonus rows

In leaving chains behind it is possible to defeat the rings more quickly. But how quickly?
PLASMO’s Chapter2 Easy video is a great example he leaves two chains behind and finishes the rings almost before it is entirely visible with no release. 

Remember the moment all the top of the ring  appears and you have to use a release the most you’ll achieve is 9 rows. If you beat the ring when it appears with no release it may be possible to get 10?
The very first ring enemy attainable is white then alternating you can determine from starting the rings approximately when you finish.
Here follows the starting points of 9 players
1W
2B  normal mode - This is were MIR begins!                            3 bars                     12 rows         11/28/05
3W
4B ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5W before this point you’ll be waiting for chains to appear rather than getting them at gens.          11/28/05
6B
7W
8B
9W easy mode PLASMO 10c prior to destroying right gen          No bars for laser      9 rows
10B proto mode rjpageuk 10c prior to destroying right gen                  N/A
11W ease mode ISO should be 10c p-t-d-t-gens                       No bars for laser      8 rows
12B easy proto Sprocket should be 10c prior p-t-d-t-gens                    N/A
13W
14B CVM and Mamahaha 12 proir to destroying right gen          4 and 5 bars            9 rows
15W---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16B
17W SnapDragon  and WIZ 12 prior                                        5 and 4bars             8 rows
18B
19W hard mode RNA                                                              4bars                      7 rows
20B
I believe there is a larger window of opportunity to improve than one might have thought. The objective is how to maintain the same result at the gens but begin the rings sooner. I will note I have not spent enough time to determine the best way of leaving only 1 or 3 chains behind.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2005, 10:21:13 am by Zugzwang »
Zugzwang

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Re: Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2005, 07:14:08 pm »

3b % 75 % 100                                                                                                                   11/28/05   
Picking up chains while clearing the rings

The rings are not dependant upon beating the generators. This may be the biggest key in successfully increasing the chain count. This strategy has been utilized with quite a bit of success by two player modes and there’s no reason to think it shouldn’t work here.
See vids: PLASMO & CVM 2P Chapter2 Normal video
              VTFINO's DoublePlay Chapter2 Normal video

On releasing to kill the generators only have 8 or 9 bars. This would leave 2 white generators complete the chain with 4 in whites in the ring
Then 6 black 
A release that catches 5 or 8 from the generator
Then finish the rings.
(Ha, chain borrowing again!)

Again one of the only videos we have of enemies being cut out happens to be a great example.
PLASMO’s Chapter2 Easy video. Notice the timing of the white release would be at some point after the 6 blacks in the ring coming back towards the left.
The biggest reason why section 3 is mostly theory is there are at least twenty variations that may or may not yield results. All of which take time to disprove.
Giving up 1 chains taking 2 back NO extra row + 1 chains total
Giving up 1 chain taking 1 back with extra row + 2 chains total
Giving up 1 chains taking 2 back with extra row + 3 chains total
Giving up 2 chains taking 1 back with extra row + 1 chains total
Giving up 2 chains taking 2 back with extra row + 2 chains total
Etc. Etc.
It is possible that after attaining a chain from one we gave up we’ll be at a disadvantage. But that should also be proved. I do need note that if there is a release during the rings there will be less bars for the lasers
« Last Edit: January 12, 2006, 04:46:13 pm by Zugzwang »
Zugzwang

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Re: Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2005, 07:14:45 pm »

_________________________________Updated_1/12/06_________________________________________

3c % 100
This section is the culmination of the previous ideas (3a & 3b) and chaining twelve rows.

For reference this is MIR's chapter2 2nd gen and bonus row strategy

The reason for this update is of course the stunning advancement that it is. As I'm sure many of you are as amazed as I am, I just wanted to go step by step through the strategy in order give it adequate praise.
  • First off the section 3a begins by asking how quickly the rings can be defeated. It is clear by the video that I misjudged how soon you can start them. As it shows the black obtained is only the second possible ring enemy. Furthermore the 12th white of the rings is finished at the soonest possible moment.
  • Secondly, because the rings do not depend on the 2nd gens MIR descovered he could destroy blacks in the ring and gen enemies together. I had tried this with white enemies and the left generator with mixed results. The timing of the single ring enemy then the 3 generator enemies is very tight. With the begining shots timed off the wall, the starting point is the key. It's something like least common denominators, if you were to start 2 enemies earlier or later it would not work. Fortunatly the timing that he found was the quickest for defeating the rings.
  • Thirdly the release does not involve any chain borrowing as I thought it would. The timing is very similar to what I expected, but with the introuction of the three whites that need to be hit first, it adds another layer of complexity. This method also involves a full homing bar which is obtained by the altered generator entrance.
  • The forth point is the effiecency found in obtaining all but one chain in the bonus rows. The strategy combines the normal six shots on the side with the next inner black row. As lpm put it "...boy do you have to be fast! Unlike chaining 9 rows there is no room for error at all." This strategy should be optimal but It won't deter me from trying to find that one last chain.
This should be enough but the most impresive part to me is how well orchestrated these ideas are together.
In summary:
  • The onorthodox begining to obtain the needed realese bars later
  • Mirroring the generators to find the correct timing for rings/black gen
  • Finding the right time to close the gens in order to time the rings (+2/-2 enemies)
  • Timing the white generator the way it is done ensures that the ring/black gen is done properly. (only taking two white. knowing one more should apear from white gen.)
  • Gauging the first shots off the wall for the first black ring enemy
  • The quickness of the rings with the final 12bar release catching three white first (as CVM stated "I really love the release onto the black gens. It happens before the last 3 blacks are spawned, which means that the 12 bars are guaranteed to hit the 2 black chains out there and the gens themselves!)
  • The lasers done  as quickly as other known methods with only two bars apon entrance.
  • And at last twelve rows chained beautifully
Now I can die a happy man.  Very Happy 
 _________________________________Updated_1/12/06_________________________________________

« Last Edit: January 12, 2006, 04:44:03 pm by Zugzwang »
Zugzwang

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Re: Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2005, 07:15:32 pm »

4 Section 4 covers bonus rows
4a probability % 100
Fully chaining 10 bonus rows without release.

I need to thank AndyPro for his preliminary work on 10 rows. Download AndyPro's 10 row video here
I began trying to utilize the enemies he had left behind in the forth row only to realize they weren’t the problem anyway. The diagrams should help visualize



The first three chains are normal as in the 9 rows method



The first change here is the w14. Starting after you get the b12 go right for w13 and back left for w14. You’d think this would put you behind but it does not because you do not pause for three whites in the 15-16 column. Actually because you’ve gone back they’re timed so that 15 and 16 are easier to hit without stopping as single shots. The rest of this step is the same as 9 rows
( The moving around the w14 keeps you from having to single shot b48 and the maneuver in between the 4th and 5th rows as in Andy’s video )



Six timed single shots up the right. Then 7 black, then 7 more. You need to avoid the black above b47. Only with practice I’ve been able to time the length of stream in order not to hit it. The final enemy of this chain is b48 a single shot in passing before the white left column.



What’s funny here is you still cannot use the enemies on the fourth row but fortunately you don’t have worry about catching them before they fall of the screen. Swerve right first as you
destroy the two black columns. (The black enemies are not in perfect order here)



This final step leaves you with the easily obtainable 2 last black chains
This strategy works although I have not found a the best way to finish the second gens to utilize it.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2007, 01:01:29 am by Zugzwang »
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Re: Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2005, 07:16:19 pm »

4b probability % 50
Chaining 11 rows

This may be possible. As I stated earlier I don’t believe giving up any more than 3-4 chains at the 2nd gens to be beneficial. 11 rows yields 5 more chains than 9 rows. That means 2 chains down with no release on the rings could potentially make 3 extra chains. This also makes no assumption that strat 3b won’t work with it.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2005, 08:35:09 pm by Zugzwang »
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Re: Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2005, 07:16:49 pm »

205 chain %100                                                                                                                       11/28/05
206 chain %100                                                                                                                       01/03/06
207 chain %95                                                         %100                                                        03/04/06
208 chain %70 is definitely within reason                    %100
209 chain %20                                                         %100 MIR's 2nd gen + bonus rows strat
210 chain %5                                                           %100 Zugzwang's 2-1, 2-2 borrowing strat
211 chain %1 %70 at 1st gen or from 1st gen to 2nd   %100 MSK's 1st gen strat
212 chain - I believe this to be the theoretical             %100 KTR's complete chaining of 12 bonus rows
maximum of chapter (this doesn’t include free unchain able enemies)
213 chain
214 chain - This would be the new theoretical max (this doesn’t include free unchain able enemies)


In case your wondering: 213th chain is finding two more blacks to carry to 2nd gens
                                    214th is the 1 chain that is missed with the release in MIR's strat during the rings
 
« Last Edit: March 04, 2006, 11:12:06 am by Zugzwang »
Plasmo

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Re: Chapter 2 Advanced Theory\Strategy
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2005, 01:27:02 am »

MIR got 209chains in normal chapter so this is 100%

single shot oh baby!!!
*_*
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